They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. How to install a kerdi membrane over cement backer board - Quora Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. Is it Sinful to put Kerdi over Hardi-backer? - Houzz Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. When cleaning thinset off of Schluter membranes, the manufacturer recommends using a wet sponge and taking care to avoid any scoring or inconsistencies on the surface of the membrane. Thanks Paul! The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. Can you put KERDI over regular drywall? - remodelormove.com Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? It only takes a minute to sign up. Thanks to Mongo's earlier post, we knew we'd have to spritz the Hardi -- but found that even that wasn't quite enough. I also used the Kerdi drain. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. Installation; As the GoBoard is very lightweight, it becomes easy to . By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. Redgard is a similar product. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. I imagine we could share some good stories. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Please feel free to reach out to our Product Support Team at 1-800-992-6273 if you need anything. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Can Kerdi membrane be installed over painted drywall? I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Hi David. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. New England. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Schluter-KERDI | Waterproofing (KERDI) | Schluter It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. Modified vs. Unmodified Mortar With Kerdi Membranes Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? Welcome to the site. Some being easier to work with than others. Kerdi Membrane Over Greenboard (Is It Recommended?) Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. Can you put Kerdi over cement board? - TipsFolder.com What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. x 48 in. x 96 in. Building Panel KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. What I would be most scared off is the fact that no inside or outside corners appear to have been used. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . Liquid membrane over cement board | Terry Love Plumbing Advice If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. . Schluter Ditra VS Cement Board (Which is better?) Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. (3ft-3in wide). If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. Thanks to all for the feedback. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. It is also widely available and a relatively inexpensive option approximately $10 for a 3-foot by 5-foot sheet. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Fixing that is not that easy though. No, that doesn't sound right. Why does drywall work in a Kerdi Shower? - Terry Love Plumbing Advice Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. Installation. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! bathroom - Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard - Home Improvement How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. I usually use Durock. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. Step 2: Determine the room's center. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Like the example above. x 48 in. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Make sure to use multiple coats, if necessary. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. It's still applied to cement board. I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. It fell right off? Personally, I like standard drywall. Anytime Mongo. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com I'm thirsty. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. the cost of the tile job. How do I connect these two faces together? Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. The mortar does . We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? kerdi membrane over osb Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. It only takes a minute to sign up. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Will use the Schluter Shower system. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. DensShield is one common brand. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. Kerdi Vs. RedGard (Compared) - Build It Fine First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Yes. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. Think about movement. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. #3 This is a DIY site. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Important to overlap seams in a shingle method.
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